peace can be more complicated than war, statements about potential negotiations with russia do not subside, but does putin need peace, what conditions may be acceptable for ukraine, and most importantly, is our state ready to compromise with the aggressor, this and not only will be discussed on the air of the project great lviv speaks, today at 9:15 p.m., the platform, everyone is mumbling a word and everyone will be heard on the air of the espresso tv channel. svoboda morning, only the most important thing, we talk about topics that others are silent about, we pay attention to details, which others do not notice. one airwave - one topic that we explore from different sides. now 20 minutes, because we value your time. watch weekdays at 9:10 on espresso. or at any convenient time on youtube radio. svoboda.

today in the program verdict with serhiy rudenko. coalition of the resolute. macron and tusk met in warsaw to discuss the european peacekeeping mission in ukraine. under what conditions soldiers. the eu may appear on ukrainian territory and whether anyone will join france and poland. punitive weapons. putin imitates hitler in attempts to use their wunderwaffe against the civilian population of ukraine in order to avenge their own military failures. can putin's nutcracker influence the future peace process?

we need a quick detente, xi jinping pointed out to putin the inadmissibility of adding fuel to the fire of war, will the chinese leader go to trump's inauguration and what can the leaders of the world's largest economies agree on? glory to ukraine! this is the verdict program, my name is sergey rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. in the future next hour we talk about war, about peace, about ukraine and about our victory. we will talk, of course, about the meeting of macron and tusk today in warsaw, about how trump became the person of the year according to time magazine, and what the newly elected president of the united states of america said about the strikes, possible strikes on ukraine from afar.

weapons that were produced in the united states of america. we will talk about all this during the next hour with the politician and diplomat roman bezsmertny. however, before we start our today's conversation, i suggest watching a video of how the ukrainian defense forces repelled a major enemy assault in the kupyansk area. soldiers of the burivy brigade, achilles and paratroopers of the 77th brigade inflicted significant losses on the enemy, in particular. destroyed two tanks and two infantry fighting vehicles, let's see how it all happened.

"glory to the ukrainian defense forces and death to the russian occupiers. friends, we are working live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are watching us on these platforms now, please subscribe to our pages on these platforms, and also take part in our vote, today we ask you about this, in your opinion, will the western contingent in ukraine be able to keep putin from new attacks,

i mean the peacekeeping contingent, which is being talked about more and more, and this contingent should be formed after it is understood. what will happen next with the war in ukraine, suspension or stopping the war or signing some agreements about some peace in some configuration, so on youtube everything is quite simple, yes no, if you have a separate opinion, please leave it in the comments under this video, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote for the numbers, yes 0800 211 381, no 0800 211. 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will summarize the results of this vote. i would like to introduce our guest today, this is roman bezsmertny, a ukrainian politician, diplomat, former ambassador of ukraine to belarus, people's deputy

of several convocations and participant of the trilateral contact group, which once worked on the settlement of the situation in donbas. mr. roman, i greet you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, mr. serhiy, well, let's start our conversation with the meeting of french president macron and polish prime minister tusk in warsaw, today they met, on the eve of this meeting there was a lot of talk that macron and tusk would discuss the issue of creating a european peacekeeping mission that could enter the territory of ukraine after the war in ukraine is... suspended or frozen, during a press conference with french president donald tusk commented on rumors about plans for such a mission, about the possibility of such a mission, let's listen to what tusk said.

i want to put an end to speculation about the presence of troops of this or that country in ukraine after a ceasefire is reached. about this decision on polish actions will be made in warsaw and only in warsaw. at the moment we are not planning such actions. in turn, macron stated, that ukraine should decide for itself whether the presence of foreign troops on its territory is necessary. which version do you, mr. roman, lean towards? warsaw should decide whether a european mission and poles in this european mission are necessary, or according to macron's version, which still should decide whether such a peacekeeping mission is necessary? the point is, mr. serhiy, that today in international law these issues are very carefully regulated, firstly, who should make the decision, it is either the security council on the proposal of the relevant

analytical center, or osce, and such missions can be civilian, can be military, can be combined, for today... there is no other center that could provide legitimate peacekeeping missions from the point of view of international law, but i want to draw attention to the first thesis: we still need to get to this point in order to have a conversation on this topic in principle, this is the first and second, i still want to return to emmanuel macron's initiatives. february 2024 , where there was talk of providing assistance to ukraine with personnel for conducting combat operations, not for a peacekeeping mission, because we are now looking at this

escort of vehicles and so on, well, this is probably the first case in history when the issue of providing peacekeeping missions is discussed at the bilateral level, because from the point of view of such resources, firstly, the relevant units are in the countries, they are licensed, there are relevant permits, there is even personnel who are engaged in licensing and training personnel for the implementation of such missions, that is, it is not just gathered two, three or four presidents decided, let's send a peacekeeping mission, this is very serious work, which is connected, first of all, i want to emphasize this once again, with the activities of the un and the activities of the osce, as is known today, that both organizations are in a state of dead sleep, not silence, and to expect

from them not so much a solution, any initiatives, is clearly moving too quickly in this regard, from my point of view, but... macron did not back down from his position, and most likely we are talking today about what is a kind of, let's say, a topic for rejection. because since february 28, 2024 , emmanuel macron and five other european countries have been saying all the time that ukraine needs assistance with personnel, specifically for combat operations, not for peacekeeping missions, especially since from the point of view of the current situation, well, only a well-prepared dreamer and... a person who does not understand that after the meeting in paris, after the next

statements, the initiation of topics, freezing, ceasefire and so on, it became clear that these are things that are not yet resolved, that there is still work to be done, because the initiator himself, that is, donald trump, said that the situation is very complicated, at first he said that he was working on... a concept, now he says that it cannot be adopted quickly, and i kind of think that somewhere from the moment he takes office, other things will become obvious to him, that this spinning of the topic around ukraine, it seems to me, has been a big mistake from the very beginning, because why spin this topic around ukraine, when in fact it is necessary to attack and force the brains of the fuhrer to take certain actions, because it seems to me that this is absolutely wrong, and what seems to me, i am convinced of this,

the center of attention has been chosen incorrectly, and the actions of donald trump, and european diplomacy, and rather all these processes overlap here, and that is why it turns out that you see, both of us, when you asked this question, we laughed, because it is really, it is a little funny from the point of view of its formulation, even from the point of view of its proximity, implementation or... the answer to it, because if you look at it today, as i said, on the regulatory framework, it is written out in quite detail in this regard, well, you know , maybe, maybe the future polish presidential candidate szymon golovnia smiled or laughed in the same way, who allowed the participation of polish troops in the peacekeeping mission in ukraine only under the auspices of nato, what he said, if we consider any participation of poland, in my opinion, at this stage there is no other formula, except nato, for... this to happen, this is the position of the polish presidential candidate, the elections will be held

there in six months, but the polish the newspaper rzecz pospolita writes that the european peacekeeping mission could consist of five brigades, that's about 40,000 soldiers, poland could take over the command of one of them, so you see such an informational vinaigrette that is currently in the information field, and obviously it is connected precisely with... with the fact that everyone is waiting, and what will trump say on or after january 20, 2025, although trump already said in an interview with the magazine, today time magazine named the 47th president of the united states of america the person of the year. so what trump said in an interview with a magazine, an american magazine influenced by vomov, that he opposes strikes with american missiles deep into russia. and what else does he say, i'll quote him: i categorically disagree with strengthening missiles

hundreds of miles deep into russia, why are we doing this, we're only strengthening this war and making it worse, - trump said, well, at least here , against the background of all this vinaigrette, at least there is some clarity, that is, we will not have long-range missiles, i understand correctly, well, this is from trump's point of view, but we still have the position of friedrich meyer. and the future chancellor of germany, we have the position of keir starmer and we have the position of emmanuel macron, who insist that three months ago they insisted that this decision should be made as soon as possible on the date of granting this right to ukraine from the european suppliers of such weapons in ukraine, such a position was held only by italy, and then in the person of the minister of foreign affairs, as far as i know, himself... giorgia meloni, she did not object to this, that is, here we need

understand that the united states, represented by donald trump, are the bearers of this position for the simple reason that more than once both the pentagon and the state department have stated that there is nothing to supply to the united states of america, because when it comes to atakams , it is not enough, and that, there are not enough units to supply them to ukraine, because when it came to helping israel, they almost wasted the entire arsenal, so this is not about that, let's say, in this situation, but about what... donald trump says in this regard, well, here we need to treat the phrase in 24 hours the war will stop, because i will call the fifth vasya and everything will be settled, then it was that we will work, but it is very difficult, and now it turns out that it is so difficult, that who knows how it

will be, because nbc news said that maybe i can, i will work, and... and i won't be able to, i'm almost quoting what was said there, so in this regard, from my point of view, we need to understand the things that donald trump is saying, because there is another problem here in how much he has understood the whole situation, he understands it, i will remind you of 2017-2018, when in the 17th year two destroyers of the united states of america carried out strikes on syria, but by... in 1018 there were not just not enough of them, but they america had a colossal deficit for the strikes then on military chemical weapons bases, weapons production plants and airfields, then it was necessary to involve the coalition and great britain and france and double them in order to double the number of strike

tools for the attacks for these purposes in syria, so who knows, but... obviously, it is also not clear to talk about trump that we are almost going to leave or not leave nato, and now in the issues of supplying or not supplying, because if you read deeper, the assistance, if we were to provide, might be less, might be different, that is, in fact , it means such a free interpretation of the current situation, a discussion in order not to drive ourselves into a corner tomorrow. in any situation, so i would say here too that let 's see how it will develop situation, i am more concerned about the behavior of european partners, and in my opinion, they have become more active, at least the same emmanuel macron, the germans in the person of friedrich merz, well, i'm not talking about keir starmer,

because the position there is clear, the british said that they are in favor, and if the decision is made... then from them there will simply be clear implementation, order, timely, in the necessary volumes and in the necessary quality, so from my point of view, in the current situation here , europeans dominate in this regard and should dominate, the question arises, why was a management system created in the vyshove region, which today is actually fully responsible for assistance to ukraine, this is a very important unit in this regard, and here i would say that the role of both the secretary general and nato comes to the fore. as for donald trump, we will gradually see how he will master the material part, what decisions he will make, how he will correct his actions, because as you can see from everything, these actions are subject to very serious correction by the latter time. mr. roman, you mentioned

the europeans, who are our partners, who have supported us since the first days of the great war. who clearly articulate their position. at the same time, there are europeans who have also become more active, some europeans, in particular the prime minister of hungary viktor orban, because he was with trump a few days ago at his residence in the united states of america, then spoke on the phone with putin for an hour, what they talked about there is unknown. after which orban said whether he had suggested to zelensky in absentia to declare christmas. truce, arrange an exchange of prisoners of war, i 'm lost in the versions of whose side in this, in this situation orban is taking, that is, trump's or putin's, is it possible that there is already some agreed position between trump and putin, but

orban is voicing it, or is it just orban's position, which i followed today. russia is very strongly supported by the media, they say, szijjarto spoke with lavrov and szijjarto says, well , ukraine does not want to go to the christmas truce, who is orban in the current situation and why is he acting in the role a peacemaker, in the role of a person who is trying, well, conditionally speaking, to reconcile russia and ukraine? mr. serhiy, from my point of view, everything is simple here, orban is an agent of the kremlin, he is a person who carries out... the instructions that are being produced in the kremlin, these are the messages from orban and fico these past two days, one wonders about what troops can go to ukraine, there he said something that... i get the impression that you, good man, are you at all in your memory, what you are saying, as for this sub, the reason is clear, six months

reigned in the european union, reigned 0.0-thies , well, he went there several times to putin, xi jinping, to the iranian ayatollahs, ran into them, and several times visited... ralago to trump, well , and if he sees himself as almost a world peacemaker and so on. in fact , there is absolutely no sense in this, in this activity of orban. moreover, he thinks that by this, in terms of information, he can cover up his inaction as the country presiding over the european union. in fact, this is nothing. other than serving narratives and information operations, which all the time involve the special services of the russian federation

and nothing else, this is, firstly, secondly, in the current situation, behind this is clearly the realization of orban's own interests, which are worth it, especially regarding hydrocarbons and so on, and this is covered up by a great desire and ideas of some kind of reconciliation. exchange of prisoners of war, you know, i have to tell you about all these christmas truces, mr. serhiy, those who are listening to us, yes i remember them from 2014 , all this ended with the fact that after a few minutes the artillery from the racist side started firing, so sometimes he just needs to say to this round viktor orban, " don't open it in private." so, publicly, you shouldn't do this, because after all, he somehow represents the hungarian people, so what are you babbling about in this situation? we've already

answered this question 100 times and forgotten. the same applies to prisoners of war. in russia , they can't give advice to the lists they have. well, there's what's called complete chaos, and so when orban starts a song about it, it's clearly playing on the kremlin's movement. about the fact that ukrainians do not want something or do something, how much ukraine has already stated its position that it is necessary to first of all return the seriously wounded, who need operations, care and so on, people who have been in captivity for a long time, but orban does not want to hear this, because he needs to fulfill the kremlin's tasks, he works off the money that he is paid in the form of hydrocarbons there and all sorts of other things, so from my point of view, this is just orban's presence in both nato and the european union

is evidence that there is a problem there, because i understand that hungary should not be excluded from either the eu or nato, but depriving this man of the right to vote and putting him in his place would be a very correct step, because this is the first time he has made such trips, i understand, including while presiding over the eu for eu resources, that this time, he should have said, what is your mandate, who are you, in general, who do you represent on these trips, well, and his foreign minister , who sings along all the time, i read his statements after this trip to maralago, there are announcements of some big events, a call, and the fuhrer of moscow... because this is a big event from szijjarto's point of view, which is being carried out by the prime minister of hungary. well, i understand, it's great that he's collapsing in a political sense,

that's why he needs these comedies. the ukrainian president's response was absolutely correct, i would have said it more bluntly there, better call assad, let him tell you what friendship has brought him to with the moscow fuhrer, and this will be the same path for orban. mr. roman, but orban and szijjarto are doing quite an unpleasant thing, or let's say, a harmful thing, together they are doing, they are trying to level the role of russia in this war, that is, they want to put ukraine and russia on the same scale, they say, there are two sides, there is some kind of conflict, and they should resolve this conflict peacefully, not separately. or accents that russia is an aggressor country, the leader of this aggressive state is a man, which received

a warrant from the international court, and ukraine is a victim country that is defending itself, that has lost many people, cities and villages that were burned by the racists, that is, isn't this a prelude to those negotiations that may begin before or after january 20, 2025, when these orban and szijjarto will simply draw an equal sign between russia and ukraine, well, there are two sides, let them reconcile somehow. mr. serhiy, i do not exclude that a certain number of people think so, but we are not in 2014, not in 2018, we are already in 2024, because we remember, including other moments, when jim kerry and lavrov were sitting in vienna, and at the same time , the russians were shelling ukraine in the donbas, they had everything in chocolate, as

they say, everything. we have experienced times with our partners, allies, today, from my point of view, what orban is doing is finishing off the european union, which is already facing big problems, and is causing enormous damage to nato. as for ukraine, well, except for those who are not getting any arguments, it will be a plus, and this is firstly, secondly, you understand, here's the sadness. the situation worries me more about these trips of his to maralago, because together with these children of the newly elected president, who can't find a place for themselves and write semi-literate posts, this is a very dangerous thing, because in principle, for almost the 11th year of the war , the racists have gone against ukraine and the world

can already give up most of its. at the level of the elite, the establishment, to give an assessment of who is, who is in this situation, but what concerns the brainwashing of trump, this seriously worries me, this is, firstly, and secondly, the damage that is constantly being inflicted on the european union and nato, and from my point of view, this should have a reaction from the leadership of the european union, it has already changed and can fully... react to this , including nato, because you understand, you can say anything you want, but this same person will be on the nato council, at a meeting of the top leadership of the european union, well, in the european union they don't always say things that are not desirable to tell the moscow fuhrer, but at nato meetings, especially in the current situation,

a lot of important things are being reported. which is clear to me, because of people like fitso, orban, they become very quickly known in moscow, this is a problem from my point of view, and as for the assessments, who is, who is in this situation, i still see that those who are needed, i'm not saying in general, they are actually already able to realize and give an answer to the question, andriy yermak, head of the office of the president of ukraine. mr. roman stated in an interview with the public that ukraine is not ready for negotiations with aggressor country of russia regarding the end of the war in the context of strong negotiating positions. let's listen to what yarmak said. we lack weapons, we lack the status that we are talking about, that we really need an invitation to nato, and an understanding of clear guarantees that would provide

us and... so that we are sure that this will never happen again, and putin will not return in two or three years, and that is why today we are talking with partners about why it is so important to strengthen ukraine. and yesterday, mr. roman, podalak said that ukraine is ready for negotiations with russia, in short, let them sort it out in the president's office, whether they are ready or not, but this position that andriy yermak articulated, does this mean that we will wait... an invitation to nato, we will wait for weapons and we will not enter into any negotiations and we will not look for options for suspending the war, freezing the war, or we will not persuade our partners to take certain actions that will not require excessive effort from them, because an invitation to nato, apparently now looks like excessive effort for the members of the north atlantic alliance, this is a very multifaceted problem.

mr. serhiy, and from my point of view.